lupusintabula ([info]lupusintabula) wrote,
2005-09-08 08:35:00

Chart

I thought carefully last night about how I'd like to reveal knowledge about Deaths and Saves in Lupus In Tabula.  Here's what I came up with:
Save Target knows about Killer Target knows about Savior Others know about Target Other Know About Savior Killers Know About Savior
Bodyguard Role Role Nothing Nothing Role
Martyr Role Identity Nothing Identity Identity
Witch Role Role Nothing Nothing Nothing
Hamster self-save Role Identity Nothing Nothing Identity






Death Others know about Killer



Lynch Identity



Wolf Role



Witch Role



Hunter Identity



Hamster Role




Does this make sense?  Comments?

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  • 21 comments

[info]hungryandhollow

September 8 2005, 15:59:22 UTC 6 years ago

i don't get it, sorry.

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 16:02:02 UTC 6 years ago

Two different charts, "Save" and "Death"

[info]airor

September 8 2005, 16:05:54 UTC 6 years ago

What about a bodyguarded martyr? According to this, the identity of the martyr is revealed to everyone despite the fact the martyr is still alive.

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 16:08:30 UTC 6 years ago

That would be under the Save chart under Bodyguard (the reason the save occurred). The Martyr would be the "Target" in this case. Nobody ever learns anything about a saved target.

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 16:10:04 UTC 6 years ago

Actually, the "Others" never learn anything about a Save Target. The Killer knows who they're targetting automatically, and the Savior knows who they're saving automatically.

[info]parzanese

September 8 2005, 17:37:29 UTC 6 years ago

that doesn't work . . . the bodyguard only saves from werewolf attacks not giving up one's live for someone else . . . if the martyr and the werewolves both pick the same person (one to save, the other to eat), the martyr is dead even if the bodyguard is protecting the martyr . . . the bodyguard can only save the werewolves intended target, not the eventual end result target . . . however, since the witch can save the werewolves eventual victim, I'd rule that the witch could heal the martyr . . . the wolves of course at this point would know that the martyr was the martyr . ..

[info]hungryandhollow

September 8 2005, 16:47:51 UTC 6 years ago

ah, ok. the boxes help. So basically, this says that:
If the Bodyguard saves someone, the killer and the target both know that the Bodyguard saved the target but not who the Bodyguard is, and the target knows that the wolves attacked them but not who the wolves are.
Also, when someone is killed by lynching or the hunter, everyone knows who killed them, but killed by any other means they just know the special ability that killed them.
Do I get it now?

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 16:59:00 UTC 6 years ago

You got it! Yeah, I looked up some online HTML reference pages and figured out how to put the lines in. Thanks for hanging in.

[info]girlpurple

September 8 2005, 17:06:55 UTC 6 years ago

Thanks for taking the time to do this, Joel... this helped clarify my questions about who knows what about whom when all the special roles are involved.

I do have one more question though: if the AFFLICTED is attacked by wolves and becomes one of them, are the villagers told that there is one more wolf (role not identity) to be killed?

[info]the1mouse

September 8 2005, 17:08:03 UTC 6 years ago

I do not believe so.

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 17:09:42 UTC 6 years ago

No. Only the Wolves and Afflicted would know.

[info]the1mouse

September 8 2005, 17:07:32 UTC 6 years ago

In my humble opinion, this is far too complicated. It would take a lot of espresso for me to sort it out. Here's what I (personally) think works. If it's the same as what your table is, great. If not... just take it as feedback.

In Wolf attacks where the Target SURVIVES, only the TARGET and the SAVIOR (if applicable) know who did the saving. Nobody else knows anything. The Savior's identity is not revealed, and the Target's role is not revealed. This should include the Hamster.

In Wolf attacks where the Target DIES, it is irrelevant, because in a non-blind game, they are going to find out the Target's role anyway.

I also think that, in a game of this format, the identity of who *killed* the targets overnight should not be revealed. Two show up dead or one shows up dead... but it isn't clear who killed whom.

--
My problem with revealing any individual's role while he/she is still alive is that it interferes with the game mechanics. It gives the Wolves more information than they already have (which is giving them additional steps up on the Village). For example:

Revealing to the wolves that the WITCH used his/her healing potion to save the Target has great strategic value for the wolves, increasing an already significant advantage by allowing them to a) account for the use of the potion, and b) eliminate one of their targets as the witch AND as the hamster (who would be unattackable).

If the save information is withheld, the wolves know that someone was saved, but they do not know by whom - it might have been by the witch, it might have been by the bodyguard, they might have attacked the hamster, they might have found the Afflicted. Now granted, that information could be revealed in the next day's conversation - but at least this gives the WITCH and the target some strategic choices about what to reveal.

Anyway - that's just what I think... but I haven't had enough coffee yet... so if it doesn't make sense, I do apologize.

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 17:26:30 UTC 6 years ago

Revealing to the wolves that the WITCH used his/her healing potion to save the Target has great strategic value for the wolves, increasing an already significant advantage by allowing them to a) account for the use of the potion
Yeah, that might be a big advantage. With the Martyr around though, the Villagers can still get a 3 day in a row save with Bodyguard/Martyr/Bodyguard.

b) eliminate one of their targets as the witch AND as the hamster (who would be unattackable).
Actually they would know its the potion (by process of elimination), but not who gave it to their Target. They still would not know who the Witch was.

Your second point is a pretty interesting situation. The Wolves automatically find out who the Hamster is if they attack him, which provides us with the much amusing "they know who he is and must try to get him lynched without outting themselves". But what if the Witch hasn't used the potion yet? I would rule that the Witch (who normally finds out who the Wolves' Target is before they choose to use the Healing potion) finds out that the Wolves were fought off by the Hamster, but not who the Hamster is.

Yeah, this is all pretty complex, but I like the story elements behind it all. It does reveal information, but I don't think it reveals too much.

[info]the1mouse

September 8 2005, 17:32:21 UTC 6 years ago

In point "b", I actually meant that the wolves would know that 1) their target is not the witch, and 2) their target is not the hamster. This means that if they are hamster or witch hunting, they can move on.

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 17:52:17 UTC 6 years ago

1) They would know the potion was used (through process of elimination) but would not know who gave it to their target. They would not be sure if their Target was the Witch (she saved herself) or if someone else was the Witch (she gave the healing potion to the Target).

2) Definitely.

[info]the1mouse

September 8 2005, 17:54:40 UTC 6 years ago

Ah Ok on number 1. So it would not say "the witch has saved him/herself." It would say "so-and-so has been saved by the witch."

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 17:59:26 UTC 6 years ago

Actually, I would tell the Wolves nothing. Since they didn't see the Martyr, Bodyguard, or Hampster, they'd have to assume that it was the healing potion.

[info]the1mouse

September 8 2005, 18:00:25 UTC 6 years ago

Ah Ok... they would see nothing, so it could still be the Afflicted.

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 18:05:38 UTC 6 years ago

Hmmm...haven't thought about that. I'd likely let them know if it was the Afflicted as well.

[info]parzanese

September 8 2005, 18:11:03 UTC 6 years ago

I don't let them know if it was the afflicted . . . I just let the afflicted show up in the wolf post and say hi the next night :)

[info]lupusintabula

September 8 2005, 18:07:17 UTC 6 years ago

I take that back. They do have a lot of info already. I'd let them lynch the Afflicted accidently. :) I'd let the Target know that they were the Afflicted at that point though.
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